Quickloads Discontinued
Fuji have a christmas surprise for large format photographers everywhere with the declaration that they are to discontinue production of QuickLoad film from April 2010.
The British Journal of Photography website says:
BJP has learnt that Fujifilm plans to discontinue its Quickload film products next year.
The 4x5 film holders, beloved of large format landscape photographers, will cease manufacture in April 2010, though stocks are expected to last until the end of the year in the UK.
Designed for use 'where carrying many double-dark slides could be either inconvenient or impossible', they hold the 4x5 film in light-tight envelopes that can be loaded into a special holder in daylight, and which are less bulky than a dark-slide loaded with film.
BJP understands that its Acros Quickload products were discontinued earlier this year, and that its Velvia 50 versions have been in very short supply.
Fujifilm UK will continue to sell Quickload versions of Pro 160S, Provia 100F, Velvia 100 and Velvia 50 while stocks are in supply.
A spokeman for the firm in the UK described it as 'an end of an era'.
Hopefully this has no implications for the production of 4x5 film itself (although all bets are off I imagine).
My worry over the sheet film is based on the fact that Fuji say QL discontinuation is based on lack of sales and my observation that nearly everyone I know who shoots colour films uses quickload. This must mean that colour film sales are low also?
For those interested in the weight implications, a set of three double dark slides is approx 500g wheras a quickload holder is 350g and six sheets of QL film is 150g.. So if you are carrying six sheets of film only, there is no difference in weight.
If you carry twelve sheets of film, the weight for DDS is now 1kg whereas it is 650g for quickloads. Not too much of a difference really.
However if you want to get out and about with 18 sheets of film, your DDS package would weight 1.5Kg whereas your quickload equivalent would be 800g.
I don't know many walks where I've taken more than 10 sheets (and most of the times I have done so are when I've taken multiple exposures). Even if you do want to take 18 sheets of film, the extra 700g is hardly onerous.
My recommendation would be - stop taking B sheets and get it right first time ;-) (ok, glib comment, sorry)
Highlight this Comment Paul Breitkreuz21/12/2009, 15:58
Tim, after your recent post about Fuji Astia being possibly dropped, I sent an email to B&H to see how things stood in the U.S. market. The answer at that time was unknown. B&H did not have any updates at that time on Astia and basically stated that Fuji does not necessarily provide any long term projections on their products in general. Every LF shooter I know here in U.S. standardly use QL's and half of those folks are die hard Astia users. After the loss of Acros recently, Astia on the trap door, and now this information posted here, things do not look very good for QL's at all.
Highlight this Comment Charles Twist21/12/2009, 16:12
If Fuji are (i) not able to produce the film for a cost they can cover with sales and (ii) unwilling to make a loss on ANY of their lines (as per the recent transcript of your phone call which you posted on UKLFPG), then it's curtains for film or a considerable price hike.
Very worrying. We need a company which believes in film and is prepared to offset costs thanks to other product lines. What ever happened to their Love Film idea?
Best regards, Charles
Highlight this Comment Julian21/12/2009, 17:14
The thing about QL manufacture is that it's an extra process on top of basic sheet-film production, Basically, Fuji makes the film anyway but then has to run it through another line to stuff it into QL envelopes. Not to mention the cost of the extra bits and pieces which comprise the product we know and love. Cutting out the extra processes would obviously save a considerable amount of money and, presumably, help a faltering bottom-line.
How this affects sales of LF film overall is a tricky one. Bear in mind that QL is just a subset of total sales so demand would remain relatively static. However, as Joanna pointed out in her reply to the BJP, people massively stockpiling QL would distort figures with potentially disatrous results.
Can people resist the urge to stockpile and instead think about the long-term situation? Or is this a golden opportunity for Joanna to push ahead with her idea of a reloadable system, based on the QL concept?
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin21/12/2009, 17:57
Hi Paul - this sounds like the feedback I've had. I've just ordered 350 sheets of Astia (only 200 for me though) but may order some QL too following this news (I've just bought a dedicated film freezer to placate the wife - oh and allow access to the lamb chops). It's interesting that a lot of LF shooters in the states use Astia, very rare here.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin21/12/2009, 18:19
Yeah - love film. ha! Love profits just like any other company. Commitment to film means being willing to support the artists that use it by spending some marketing budget in subsidising some of the lines of film that art photographers use.. i.e. large format!
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin21/12/2009, 18:31
the only good way of reading this is that some part of the quickload production process was required to be re-engineered due to a supplier or material being discontinued or becoming prohibitively expensive. Instead of making the investment in a new line or finding a manufacturer/supplier, they've chosen to shut up shop.
If this is the case then things don't look too bad (although being a pain for QL users). However, if the cause is bad sales, I have worries about the future of LF film in general.
As for people not stockpiling? I don't think it will happen. And I'm not sure what good it would do. Fuji would probably just read it as 'oh well that proves the lack of sales'. A massive stockpiling may make them reconsider (although they would have to realise that short terms sales would be low as a result).
Who is going to invest in a quickload replacement with the possibility of sheet film being discontinued? I know something though, now is the right time to get in touch with Fuji asking what they plan to do with the QL line of equipment.
Highlight this Comment Julian21/12/2009, 19:29
I think it's a little premature to suggest that Fuji will stop production of sheet film. After all, it's just film like any other - slightly thicker and cut differently, yes, but more or less the same. Why drop sheet film and not, say, 120? Or 35mm? What would Fuji save? My guess is only a small amount. They'd still have to retain most of their production facilities to support the other formats, after all.
I see no cause for panic, just yet. It might be worth a petition and/or a letter-writing campaign, though. Look what happened in the case of 'classic' Velvia.
Highlight this Comment Paul Breitkreuz21/12/2009, 21:24
Tim, I have followed up with yet another email to B&H to see if they now have any insight as to where this will end. I also included the link you had to the BJP article. My last question to them on Astia was not much to be shared, beyond they seem to hear about the shoes dropping the same time we do. My feeling is, I'm sure to a certain extent Fuji has the records to indicate what sells and what does not. If it is more of the support in too many directions of product variety and they need to narrow the lines, that is somewhat understandable. It would be nice if they would at least support 1 each QL in 50 & 100 ASA, as well as 1 each in standard 50 & 100 ASA loads. No doubt there seems to be anomalies with all films, we just have to work through those issues as they are. Hopefully, Fuji will reconsider things and take another look here. Thanks for these powerful updates. I'm passing them along to some of the U.S. LF shooters I happen to know. Many of them have just bought upgraded cameras recently too.
Highlight this Comment Neil Bryce21/12/2009, 21:47
And a Merry @~#!>#~@ Cristmas to you too Fuji. Very worrying signs.
If you listen hard enough you can just hear the chimes of the death knell in the distance. I'm sure this will have many digital users boasting how they told us so all along and I feel they could be right.
Lets face it, film will be stockpiled (again), short term sales will slump and they will look at axeing more products. It's not looking good for landscape photographers, we are a niche market after all. I can see velvia being the next to go along with astia. They may keep a limited product line of just one reversal and one negative film, but in what format. I'm sure 35mm is all but dead and buried leaving 120 as the most likely format to succeed.
In all honesty, if the light is looking good one evening are you going to rush around loading a few dark slides and go out or will you just say "sod it, I'll grab the digital" and go out. Usage will drop and that will further reduce sales. Quickloads gave accesibility and ease of use for many users, a few will feel the added inconvenience to be not worth the hassle anymore.
I can't help feeling this has been triggered by the discontinuation of the old velvia and the subsequent stockpiling but realistically that must have been a small fraction of the overall sales and this decision is due to wider economic factors.
It's all that pesky digitals fault, Grrrr ! (shakes fist at monitor). Tim, have you looked into making your own film yet ;-) either that or start investing in some glass wet plates !
Highlight this Comment Paul Breitkreuz22/12/2009, 03:15
I think Neil's comments have a lot of merit to them I'm afraid. I did hear back from B&H very quickly for this time of the year. Not much to share from what we don't already know with regard to Acros and possibly Astia. I've sent an email to Fuji USA to see what they can offer as an update. I did stress that there are many folks still actively even updating their 4x5 gear. I know 4 LF shooters who just recently purchased new cameras alone. Again, it might be to close to the holiday down time to hear much right now from Fuji. Let's all hope for some encouraging news. Take care!
Highlight this Comment Simon Miles22/12/2009, 11:42
Let's face it, this is the beginning of The End. No doubt LF film will continue to be produced for a while, but in an ever decreasing range of emulsions and formats. It will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Used LF equipment prices will fall away, progressively fewer people will use it, and fewer labs will process the film. For my part, I am self-employed, with a young family to support, and business is difficult in the current economic climate. I have therefore already made the (painful) decision to sell my LF equipment whilst used prices are still good. I always thought this would happen eventually, although it has come a little sooner than I expected. Best wishes to all and good luck to those of you who decide to stay true to the Dark Slide.
Highlight this Comment David O22/12/2009, 13:10
Just when I was about to get on the bus, I see it has already left the station. How frustrating! This will make me think more about a move away from gidital into LF. LF makes sense for so many reasons but it does need to be convenient enjoyment.
Tim - still doing that Intro to LF course next year?!
Rgds
David
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin22/12/2009, 13:27
Certainly are! And we'll have a special section on sheet film and processing your own.
I'm going to add another post about my predictions for the future of large format film. In summary though, I think a negative film stock like Portra will be around for some time as the contemporary art photography movement would crumble without it. As for transparency films, as long as the stock is available, I imagine sheet film of some sort will be too. There is still a huge interest in film in general so although I think some consolidation of stock may take place (i.e. Astia is on the way out almost certainly. Pro160S is probably going too as it can't compete with Portra. Kodak may bring out a sheet film version of Ektar? We may end up with only Velvia 50, Provia 100 and Velvia 100 (still big in US) and then Kodak Portra. This doesn't bother me although I quite liked Astia (and have stocked up).
The future for large format film is still strong I think - it will inevitably undergo some consolidation though.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin22/12/2009, 13:34
Hi Simon - I'm not sure it's the beginning of the end. That could have been said when Nikkor stopped selling large format lenses or when Quickload holders were no longer manufactured or when the E6 labs started closing down. It's part of a long move from corporate control over the industry to a more art supplies type market. At some point we'll see a big upheaval where the colour film market adjusts from being corporate, shareholder driven to being small niche market driven. Large corporates don't like operating in areas where significant growth can't be leveraged. However, smaller boutique companies are happy to operate on a margin. IP/manufacturing will transfer at some point. Look at the polaroid 'impossible project' for worst case scenario..
I predict (and would happily put money on the fact) that large format colour sheet film (both transparency and negative) will be around in some form for the next two decades at least.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin22/12/2009, 13:37
Hi Neil - I think you are right. Fuji don't really have an interest in film users beyond making some money. What we really need is someone who has the contacts to talk to Fuji about creating some form of 'heritage' IP escrow so that the whole system won't need reinventing should they give up. Anybody know who to talk to?
Highlight this Comment Simon Miles22/12/2009, 15:12
Tim, LF film may still be available in twenty years' time, as you predict. But I think there is a real issue of cost and convenience. As to whether this is the beginning of the end, actually this probably dates back to Fuji's decision to stop making QL holders (a clear indication that Fuji saw no long-term future in QL). As to whether LF photography can survive in a niche art market, only time will tell. I am not sure Polaroid is a very encouraging case study, but perhaps you will prove me wrong and in future years I will read on your blog about the Tim Parkin and Associates successful buyout of Fujifilm and the new New Velvia 50 and QL Mk III.
Highlight this Comment Tamara Kuzminski22/12/2009, 18:57
Why do I have a bad feeling about selling my Hasselblad now... maybe I should keep my 200 rolls of 120 film that I still have and just buy a 120 film adaptor instead...
Highlight this Comment Tristan24/12/2009, 12:04
Sad news on quickloads though I can understand why. I remember a post on lf-photo about making some kind of paper envelope system - it may be of interest to others reading these quickload posts:
Joanna Carter's proposed DIY quickload system
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