Large Format Photography Workshops - Peak District
With some of the concern about the future of film raised in association with the discontinuation of Fuji quickload* it may come as a surprise that Dav Thomas and I are starting a set of large format photography workshops. Dav contacted me at the end of last year, asking if I was interested in these and my immediate answer was yes. Dav is a great photographer who is very knowledgeable about all things large format and also is a great, artistic photographer. And if Dav thinks I have enough to offer people who wish to start or extend their large format experience and who am I to argue! I'll blow my own trumpet a bit anyway and say that although I arguably over analyse things in my blog at times, this does mean that I have a good grounding in most aspects of large format, which I can probably summarise by saying that I've done the obsessive compulsive shitty, geeky work so that you don't have to!
We're offering a weekend course and a one day course with a couple of 'advanced' courses later in the year. Our one day 'introduction to large format' course will allow anyone to come and get a taste of large format as we can supply all of the equipment you will need to try it out. We even supply you with some film and, if time permits, we develop it on site so you can see what you've taken. The first course is a weekend in the Peak District based at the Devonshire arms hotel in Baslow right in the heart of the Peak District where we'll be giving an introduction to large format that will hopefully give you all the foundations you need to develop your own style of photography.
Our weekend course isn't just for beginners either! Dav and I will be running through many techniques and approaches that you may be unfamiliar with and will definitely have a few tips that you'll find useful (unless you are Joe Cornish or David Ward, in which case you aren't allowed on the course because you'll make us both a little nervous. Sorry Joe/David!). We will also be spending a lot of time out and about, so you will get some one to one tuition on whatever aspects of large format you think needs the most attention.
If you are interested in what all of this large format stuff is about, or just want to brush up on your craft, join us for a unique photographic experience. You'll come away with a few transparencies of your own and also an idea of the processes that help large format photographers produce the work they do. Take a look at...
Peak Workshops - Large Format Landscape Photography in the Peak District
Part of the workshops will be a continuously building set of extensive notes on some of the issues and techniques that are useful for a large format photographer. Some extracts from these will be posted here and on the workshop website as time goes on. If you are interested, sign up for the newsletter or even book on a course!
And don't be afraid about film being discontinued! Film is currently a multi-billion dollar industry (even I was surprised at how large the market still was), very unlikely to dissapear in the next decade.
I hope to see a few of my blogs readers over the next year at the workshops and have a chance to show them another side of landscape photography.
The lack of quickload is not necessarily a bad thing. Sheet film is cheaper, more environmentally friendly and is actually lighter that quickload if you are happy to change film in the field. The only situation it might make more difficult is if you find yourself wanting to take 20 sheets of film on a single outing where you can't get back to the car. The other good news is that we'll be using sheet film and grafmatic backs during the course and will show you how to use them and reload them (time permitting on the one day intensive) and how to avoid common problems.
I should also add that I am seriously dissapointed with Fuji UK's recent post on their commercial website stating that the may delivery of quickload will be the last ever, despite their statement that stocks are expected to last until the end of the year. If you want quickload film now, you have to book it by paying a deposit of £10 on the Fuji website. The page states "Out of stock until April/May 2010. All orders will be placed on a waiting list. This delivery will be the FINAL batch of Velvia 50 Quickload, as it is being discontinued. ".
Highlight this Comment Jason Theaker12/01/2010, 10:41
I wish both all the best with the workshops...if I wanted to learn LF then you both would be top of my list to help me do that...all the very best for the coming year guys...
Highlight this Comment Paul Arthur12/01/2010, 12:06
I think this is fantastic news. It took me a lot of faffing with my camera to get anywhere near competent enough to take a half decent picture. It would have been excellent to be able to attend a short course to introduce it properly.
Very best of luck with them - I shall recommend them to a few people I know.
Paul
Highlight this Comment David O12/01/2010, 17:06
Very impressive site and can't believe you managed to get that domain name - have you been hiding that under your pillow for the last couple of years?
I am clearly one of the targetted and having talked and/or thought about it for a couple of years now, I'm going to have to give this consideration! The end result will almost certainly be total enjoyment followed by bankruptcy in funding the addiction. Will need to keep the wife in the dark - weekend break in the Peak District sounds delightful; am sure I can convince her.
Will have a think. Best of luck though with this venture.
Rgds
David
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin12/01/2010, 17:12
@Jason - thanks for that Jason!
@Paul - you seem to be doing bloody well now though ;-)
@DavidO - I'd love you to come on a course. Also, because we've been stocking up some gear to rent, we can give a lot of advise on what gear to buy and how to get going on the cheap. I'm still convinced that just a short experience of doing large format photography is incredibly beneficial even if you still predominantly use digital.
Highlight this Comment Paul Mitchell13/01/2010, 13:41
I just want to wish you and Dav all the very best in your new venture which I'm certain will be very successful. Just one quick question... when's your discovery day?
Highlight this Comment Paul Breitkreuz13/01/2010, 17:15
This looks to be an excellent idea Tim, and should be of help to the LF community in general. I would think it especially beneficial to those who may want to at least try LF usage first hand without having to seek out the necessary equipment on their own. There truly is no short-cuts to learning the usage, but hands on with helpful instruction goes a very long way.
Highlight this Comment Issa farhoud21/01/2010, 16:51
Well done Guys - Light and land have some competition with a dedicated LF workshops.
I feel a big discount coming our way , I wish !!
Highlight this Comment Guy Aubertin22/01/2010, 09:18
Seriously sad about the discontinuation of Quickload...can't believe it
Highlight this Comment Chris24/01/2010, 23:18
I must say, every one seems to be getting on the workshop bandwagon these days...photographers seem to be running them all over the country, nearly all of them without so much as having any photographic qualifications or commercial experience, or having a reputable name within the industry...theres so many, as I say, the markets getting swamped. I dread to think how many people who are new to the craft or hobby have been 'reeled' in. The markets so saturated, you only have to look online or in the magazines...You guys seem knowledgable, and know all the right names, however, without meaning to sound offensive, what awards, commercial knowhow, experience do you have to feel that you are different to the hundreds or more other photographers who run workshops? Hey, Ive been doing photography for 10 years, does that give me the right to start my own workshops? I think there needs to be a regulatory body, something that sets a standard...we wouldnt go building and selling homes to the public just because we watch grand designs now would we! I think it needs debating and looking at seriously...I do wish you both well however...please read this with the wider image in mind.
Highlight this Comment adamp25/01/2010, 17:41
I am not sure that I understand the point of Chris’s post, perhaps because there are several. But consider this: there are large numbers of subjects that we can teach without having any formal qualifications. Painting, sculpture, gardening, languages, history, geography… the list goes on. So why should we need for qualifications to teach photography?
As to regulation, why? Photographers are not likely to endanger the lives of others, any more than teachers of the subjects listed above. So whereas teaching someone to drive a car or a forklift truck, or build houses, should indeed be regulated (and licensed), teaching someone to take (better still, to make) pictures seems an innocuous activity.
When I look at adverts for photo holidays or workshops, I want to know what is going to be taught: style of photography, but also I look at the location, cost, and if residential what accommodation and food facilities are going to be provided. For example I have no interest in learning how to use a digital camera. But I do want to hone my skills in crafting images that make people take notice and will look for that ability in the tutor. So if you like Tim’s and Dav’s photography, then you can be confident that what they share with you should interest you. I am sure that Tim will be able to justify himself and this venture. But there is a big additional confidence building factor: study Tim’s photos, read his blog and from this you can see how he went through the process of moving into LF and this is what he is offering to help guide you; you can also judge the person’s character from the blog. Now I don’t know Dav, but I consider myself fortunate to know Tim: he is a damn good photographer – at least I like his style - and a gent through and through. And as a result, any friend of Tim’s is a friend of mine – and I quite like Dav’s photography too :) But if I wanted to learn photojournalism, then maybe I would look elsewhere. In the end, I would feel far more confident spending my money on a workshop with someone who runs an honest blog than someone who puts up an over-saturated, HDR, stitched shot at the top of his advert in a photo-mag.
Highlight this Comment Chris27/01/2010, 12:02
adamp...Im sorry but I completely disagree with you. For a start you know Tim, thats one advantage you have over many. Two; looking through blogs doesnt tell you everything, and looking at images doesnt either. I look at some images taken from some photographers running workshops, and they are quite literally terrible! There are a great many out there who think that they can take photographs worthy of charging the public £300-£600 when actually they have very little experience, both over time, knowledge and being able to create a worthy image. I can very well prove this by submitting names and website addresses if you want me to, however, this is not my blog and feel its neither my place to do such a thing. Tims a good photographer, I didnt say that he wasnt, Im raising the point that workshops are now two a penny. Digital photography is mainly to blame for this, because a lot of emphasis is now based upon Photoshop skills, histograms and the like. I know that this is not fundamental to what photography is. The reason I want regulation is not just about qualifications or indeed awards, its about making sure that what people have paid for is indeed delivered or better. Its about making sure that those with little experience in both photography AND BUSINESS do not end up taking those new to photography, and who are vunerable at the early stages of learning, out on trips or in the classroom, and having them come away with ony a fraction more knowledge than when they went in. Its about value for money, safety, insurance etc. Photography workshops 'adamp' is not just about the workshops. As a full time photographer I know that we have to be as much a business person as well as a creative individual. Not all these photographers advise their clients exactly what they are getting for their money either. They wow them with locations, but what about providing the rest, like manuals, info, transport, processing space if digital, accomodation details. The list can go on. Regulation would provide EVERYONE who is looking to go on a workshop with at least a basic assurance that these people are reputable and have met a standard. It gives people confidence, AND its great for our industry as a whole. Only those who disapprove or kick up a fuss are the ones with things to hide. And as regards to your comment about teaching not having qualifications, I think thats rediculous! Those in education, whether part time, full time, adult, evening, uni etc, ALL teachers must meet a standard to teach, whether its having gone to uni and received A levels, HND, MA etc, you cant just walk in and start teaching languages as one of your examples...whos to say anyone can put a sentence together, spell, know their grammer etc. For instance I can drive a car, pretty good actually, and Ive never had an accident, however, if I started a driving school I would be shut down immediately. Running a great B&B and showing that you meet a great standard means passing an inspector from Visit England...Being good at something, knowing a craft or being able to put together a good photograph does NOT qualify you to teach. Being good at something Im afraid is just not good enough. In this age there are too many people interested in the money and not Im afraid being passionate about photography, delivering great customer service, and delivering.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin27/01/2010, 12:40
I'm afraid that by posting here you have implicitly commented on myself and Dav. I'll try to cover you points separately
Are you saying Joe Cornish, David Ward and Charlie Waite should not be teaching photography? All they have is their talent and reputation?
The whole of the internet industry operates on a level beyond qualifications. Ask any web development, design or programming agency and you will get the same answer, qualifications mean nothing and probably indicate lower performance in many cases. This hasn't meant that the industry has fallen to bits! I have given seminars in web development and search optimisation through business link for over six years without any qualifications whatsoever.
what courses or regulations cover large format landscape photography? If they started a course tomorrow, who would they choose (no one has the qualifications to start a course!)
What criteria are you going to judge people by if you started such a course? How would you compare someone like Joe Cornish giving courses to myself and Dav. If experience and talent in photography are not suitable criteria, what are? Is someone with a teaching qualification who is awful at landscape photography a better 'qualified' workshop provider?
Myself and Dav are incredibly passionate about landscape photography. I host one of the most informative landscape photography websites on the Internet (other peoples words, not mine) and Dav has exhibited his work alongside one of the best photographers in the UK and received many comments that his work was the equal, if not better in many ways.
Both myself and Dav have had training for two of the best large format landscape photographers in the UK and have invested in a large library of landsape photography and large format photography books. We've also studied and tested a range of equipment to an extent beyond most professional photographers (custom tests on the dynamic range of transparency films, comparisons of colour responses of film types, assessing alternative focussing techniques again Merklingers white papers, etc). In fact, me and Dav know more about negative film use than Joe Cornish and David Ward - what does this mean regarding either of our suitability to lead workshops?
I'll ask a simple question - why do you think that myself and Dav are unsuitable to lead an introduction to large format workshop?
If you weren't talking about myself and Dav's workshop - you should have been more specific in your first post. I still don't believe regulation would be the answer although.
I do agree that there seems to be a profusion of people wanting to give workshops and there are no qualifications that seem suitable (at least any photography qualifications I have seen do not greatly reflect any skill by the practitioner). The numbers of people wanting to learn photography have exploded over the last 5+ years and hence the market for workshops has mirrored this. Professional photographers don't want to train beginners (at least not at the prices that customers want to pay) and so amateurs are filling the gaps - where is the problem? Where are all of the complaints from people saying 'This course was awful!'?
Who would you choose to lead a landscape photography workshop and why do you think that they would be qualified?
Lots of questions - I look forward to the answers..
Highlight this Comment Julian27/01/2010, 13:39
Regarding the apparently crowded market for workshops: Ultimately the market will decide. Those who know their stuff, can communicate it successfully and know how to run a tight business will survive and those just in it because it seems like an easy way to make a buck will not. I don't think the public are stupid, or need protecting from poor tuition, and workshop providers who don't deliver will find themselves being shunned in favour of those who do. Yes, some people will waste money and feel cheated but that's just business, I'm afraid. As a customer, if you want to avoid that happening, you just need to ask a few basic questions and do a little research before parting with your hard-earned. It's only common sense, after all.
I am sure Tim and Dav will do a great job of organising and running their workshops and I'm also sure they are not entering into this venture lightly. My only worry is that they might have overestimated the demand for their services in what is, after all, only a very small niche of the overall market. I sincerely hope not and wish them every success with their endeavour.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin27/01/2010, 14:31
Hi Julian, I think you may be right about demand but without putting out some options we'll never know. We've had bookings for the introductory course already after only a weeks advertising and I've just been told by Fuji UK that sales of large format film have risen over the last year. However with quickload being discontinued I'm not sure what overall affect this would have.
If you don't try something you don't find out.
As a side note, on reflection our choice of title for the 'advanced' course was not really appropriate and it was only written down as such because the long title was 'advancing your large format photography'. We're only going to advertise one week long workshop and we're calling it 'further large format landscape photography' - i.e. an opportunity to expand on the syllabus of the first course. The use of the term 'advanced large format' sounds a little high-brow. That doesn't mean we won't cover advanced topics though including technical subjects such as micro-tilts, how depth of field in large format cameras work, diffraction and bellows factor, advanced perspective control and also some in depth compositional topics.
The courses aren't intended as massive income generating systems (as a PhD grad working in the internet industry I can find better ways of making serious amounts of money) but more as a way of passing on some of what we've learned, an extension of my blog perhaps - and if we manage to get more people interested in large format photography, all the better.
Highlight this Comment adamp27/01/2010, 16:26
Surprisingly perhaps, I do agree with much of what Chris has said.Yes about insurance, travel safety etc. And there is no doubt that talent alone, much like academic prowess, does not make a person a good teacher. But regulation won’t solve the problem either: there are loads of poor teachers in conventional (children’s) schools, universities, motoring schools etc all of which are regulated as indeed they should be. You also say I claimed that I said something about “…teaching not having qualifications..” Perhaps I wasn’t sufficiently clear on that. What I was trying to put across is that I could advertise in the local paper private tuition in for example German or Chemistry and as long as I could stay a step or two ahead of the pupils all would be well. Sort of! The main point is that I do not need a formal qualification to become such a tutor.
Value for money etc? You can never judge that in advance, however much you regulate. Even in any one motoring school standards will vary as so much depends on the individual doing the instruction. Or what about private vs. state schools. Plenty of good teachers in the latter, but the teaching is affordable to all, not just a few. Being a good teacher requires people skills, whatever the subject. Let’s look at something quite different – hotels, restaurants etc. Heavily regulated but what is value for money for you may not be the same for someone else. I would not pay £500+ per night in a hotel, to others this could be a minimum to ensure the service they want.
As to hand-outs, notes, guides etc., fair enough though I would have thought that the main purpose of workshops/courses is to demonstrate and practice the practical aspects. Especially in LF, you cannot learn from reading alone. We can all get books and find excellent articles on the Internet, but having someone show you how to do things is a great bonus and saves hours of frustrating and possibly expensive experimentation. You also mention: transport, processing space if digital, accommodation details. Sure we agree on that. But here I agree with Julian that once you start asking the provider the questions, you will find out what is on offer.
To take your point about seeing lots of terrible pictures, then surely you would avoid courses/workshops run by such authors? I am not quite sure that I understood your point on this.
I have recent experience of a photo tour where the tuition was there for those who wanted it and at a high level too – very good and formative and I came away with new learning as well as good images. But there were some clients who were disappointed because they wanted much more wildlife photography – but the tour was never advertised as such, it was always advertised as a travel/landscape tour. Lack of research or asking the right questions by the participants was to blame here, not the tour leaders.
Chris, we do agree on a lot but I really cannot see how regulation will solve some of the problems – if indeed they exist? Have you heard lots of complaints from participants about their experiences? If yes, I suspect that word will spread and that the course providers won’t be in business for long. Rgds., Adam
Highlight this Comment Chris27/01/2010, 16:47
Ive read your emails. Its funny how a comment can turn into an all out attack on someone, just because they share an opinion. Whats the point of blogging, on any site for that matter, as soon as someone disagrees with what you have to say? Not everyone will agree with what you say, or are we all just supposed to love everything somebody says when they post?
I never said in my first post that TIm or Dav were NOT qualified or unfit for the purpose. All I said was what made you different from all the other workshops out there? After all youre not the only LF workshop. Thats it! Thats all I said. Then I went on to make a topical point about regulating these things, as a matter of discussion...not to invite people to start attacking me. What - Can nobody handle a discussion!
How about something really simple like an NVQ, BTEC, City & Guilds, HND etc...something to say that these people have taken a course and are knowledgeable to a certain standard? Im not saying that EVERYTHING has to be proven for goodness sake! For an example, you cannot work with food unless you have taken an NVQ in food hygiene. Thats it! But its something. And something is better than nothing. Even if it was to involve knowing about aperture, shutter, ISO relationships, film tech, camera tech, filtration, reciprocity, colour cast correction...anything that proves to a novice or beginner that this person knows his stuff. Anyone can talk jargon if they want - whether they understand it or not is something completely different. Those starting wouldnt have a CLUE about what was correct or incorrect infomation. And what about more serious points I raised, like health and safety, insurance etc. ALL businesses should have indemnity insurance, incase anyone should get hurt or stuff while out on a workshop. it shouldnt be left for people to have to sort out their own, not if the photographer is professional. Anyway, thats getting away from the real issue. I made a point about there being so many workshops - so rather than attack me, why dont you tell me what makes you so different? After all, it was only a very very simple question Tim? I didnt attack your mother or something?
Also - FYI Tim - I was an IT Account Manager for nearly 10 years before and while I was getting into photography. I know about IT believe you me. And I went on every training program available to me. I was certified in MS, HP, IBM, CISCO, and licensing. I HAD to do that to continue my work in the industry - it also kept me up to date and made sure that I was at a very competent level within the industry and for my employer. It only helped everyone, myself, my employer, and my customers. Surely this kind of thing would be good for the photographic industry too. How about those doing workshop or creating a payable fee for these things, having to be ARPS, or ASWPP? At least then someone looking for a workshop would know that this persons work has met an approved level by a well known photographic body?
This regulation thing is NOT a difficult thing to understand? Im not asking people to pass in advanced physics, I would just like to see "something", whatever that "something" is, to be introduced, so it stops people like your "uncle freds and harrys" buying their silly little Canon 400D and suddenly becoming Mr Landscape Workshop Guru...because believe me Tim, if you cannot find them on the internet, then your IT skills arent that great! Theyre everywhere!
I can also add, that my brother went on a professionals course by a well known photographer in Scotland...believing he would get one to one time to talk and discuss, help, explanation etc...he didnt get ONE MINUTE with this person, and he never even got a single critique on his work, never had time for him out in the field because this person was too busy taking their own images! IS THAT RIGHT? This photographer advertises all the above, and yet when it came down to it, didnt deliver. This is why not all photographers offer great workshops? Perhaps if negative comments about such a workshop was being vetted by a REGULATORY BODY for instance, then they could be investiagted, or lose membership/associate or something...something that keeps somebody on their toes is a great thing...just like my own qualifications when i worked in IT. Oh, and the photographer isnt going to exactly put negative comments about their workshops on their websites are they...so no one will ever know that they are bad at what they do? The only way other than to publically insult someone about their workshops, and rely on people reading these comments online, is regulation - and monitored regulation at that.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin27/01/2010, 17:24
Hi Chris,
Sorry you felt we were attacking when I was only hoping to defend/question a perceived slight (if you reread your comment it does come across as "what right do you have to give a course, we've got enough crap out there already").
As it is, I don't mind anybody posting differing opinions as long as I get the chance to argue with them :-)
Qualifications don't seem to prove much (I've worked with some atrocious MCSE's for instance and don't get me started on new media university courses) who is going to pay for all of this regulation? How will they regulate platinum/palladium printing classes? Is a £35 a day course by amateur photographer judged at the same level as a £4,000 course by a pro?
I agree that there are some very inexperienced people and also some very ignorant experienced people running courses. However, how would you regulate against the person who supplied your brothers course? They would probably pass the exam/review and still rip people off. As for ARPS/ASWPP, do you really want to exclude the likes of Charlie Waite, David Ward, Joe Cornish (is honorary OK?), Paul Wakfield, etc?
As for our qualification to give a large format course I would point out three aspects.
Firstly technical, I'm Doctor in engineering from UMIST university and used to lecture to students from first years to graduates. I've read Merklinger from front to back, understand the maths and can explain it in plain english. I would hope that gives me a little kudos in the engineering background and teaching experience.
Secondly artistic. I've been lucky to have tuition by Joe Cornish, David Ward, Nigel Halliwell - three very different photographers artistically but all at the top of their game. We are also both graphic designers (Dav a lot more experienced than I) and have an in depth understanding of colour, shape and form. Artistically you can judge for yourself by looking at our pictures.
Thirdly equipment. Between myself and Dav we own all types of large format equipment, Ebony, Linhof TK and Technika, Chamonix, folders and non-folders, base, centre and assymetric tilt. We've used roll film, graflex, double dark slides, negative film (portra and pro160), all available positive sheet films. We can happily use and demonstrate each of these combinations. Not only that but we can show you how to develop them and scan them too (the only thing we don't do is enlarge our own prints. We both accept that as far as quality and usability is concerned, scanning and digitally printing provide substantially better results).
I would suggest that your brother or yourself go on a public forum and document your experiences so that other people do not have to make he same mistake. To not do this is disservice to anyone who may be thinking about going on this photographers workshops in the future. The internet is the best regulator of businesses ever invented and has been responsible for 'outing' many a bad business or business practise. If more people commented about their experience on courses, the cowboys would very quickly have their revenue choked.
Finally - I understand where you are coming from. If you'd made it clear that you weren't suggesting myself and Dav were 'reeling in' more unsuspecting punters then your response may have been less defensive.
Perhaps you should start a website where people can put there feedback about workshops? A cooperative regulatory framework perhaps?
Highlight this Comment Chris27/01/2010, 23:07
No Tim I didnt mean to be offensive. I apologise if I came across this way. No I certainly wouldnt rule out the obvious well known artists who have more than proven themselves in photography. Im just a regular guy who is just fed up seeing inexperienced, unprofessional, immature people/photographers competing on the same level as those who do qualify, and actually get business, because as Ive said, beginners and those who are not really maybe into photography in a big way, but certainly want to increase there knowledge and experience, are paying big money to these people, but they are unaware of who these people are. I feel for them thats all because I believe that its not right. I shall be writing to all the photography associations, and of course I will be willing to share in anything they have to say. With regards to your comment about starting a website based upon experiences from those who have ventured out on workshops, its an idea I have already been seriously thinking about, and may actually kick start it, especially now as you have mentioned it. I have no ties with any photographers, so I would certainly like to see honest opinions shared.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin27/01/2010, 23:57
Hi Chris,
If I can help you get it off the ground, let me know. I'm stacked out at the moment but it's a good cause I think..
Highlight this Comment Sami Nabeel28/01/2010, 05:37
Hello Tim, Firstly I wish you all the success. In your attempt to defend your positions you say, “Are you saying Joe Cornish, David Ward and Charlie Waite should not be teaching photography? All they have is their talent and reputation?” Implying that Joe and David have no academic relevant qualifications which is very far from the truth, both David and Joe have very relevant academic degrees from very reputable establishments, obviously over and above their talent and immense reputation. All the best Sami
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin28/01/2010, 07:53
Hi Sami, yes it does sound like I'm saying they have no qualifications, which I know is not the case and shouldn't imply, however they don't have qualifications in many aspects of what they teach - large format photography or digital photography for instance, two significant components of their tuition. I'm sure that both of them would tell you that the majority of what they teach has been learnt through experience? And I would certainly prefer to be tought by someone with Joe or David's experience than any old art/photography graduate. Yes, David did a degree in photography but he says he came out "knowing a lot about the history of photography but with no idea how to apply that knowledge." But I will agree that they have the closest thing to a qualification to teach landscape photography - however I'll let them be the judge of how relevant they are to real world landscape photography. Thanks for the comment and best wishes :-)
Highlight this Comment Paul Arthur28/01/2010, 13:43
I have sent some in depth thoughts to Tim privately about the recent entries on this thread, but I thought I would add a few thoughts here too.
I agree with you Chris that there are a number of people offering photography courses that in my view would be a waste of my money. I think this for two main reasons: firstly, I feel that I am a better technician than them, so I would be unlikely to improve technique or knowledge through the course; secondly, I don't admire their photographs and don't feel that photographing with them would inspire me.
For me, the only courses I would consider attending these days are ones offered by Light and Land directly (and in that case, only the top level ones) or ones led independently by photographers of a similar ilk. However, (and this is the crucial point) I don't think therefore that all courses that I wouldn't want to attend shouldn't run at all. In the same way that there are cheap and expensive cars that offer different things, there needs to be a spread in photography workshops. If the Jaguar photography workshop was the only one available, most people wouldn't be able to afford it, wouldn't find themselves in the company of people they find inspiring and wouldn't improve by practising in an environment geared to learning.
I teach photography to a number of businesses that use photography internally and although I don't have any teaching qualifications, nor photography qualifications (except for a LRPS for a panel of landscape images completely unrelated to the commercial photography I teach) I offer a service aimed to share the knowledge and experience I do have with people who do not. Surely therefore, providing I don't dress it up as something it isn't, I'm offering a valuable service that my clients can be confident in, whether I'm regulated or not? Similarly, Tim and Dav are completely upfront about what you get for your money, they show their own work and explain and demonstrate their in-depth knowledge of Large Format Photography. Why do they need to be regulated provided they offer what they say they do?
I also think that a prospective client needs to take some responsibility for the course they are booking themselves on to - if the information looks approximate, not very informative and disorganised, it's a good bet that the course will be the same. I don't think it is fair to come back from a course someone runs for the first time that has cost £200 for a week to say "it wasn't as good as a Light and Land course - I've been ripped off - how dare they run it at all". If the course later doesn't live up to what was advertised then you can complain about it, and rightly so.
Chris's brother had a bad experience, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the industry is a crook - and I certainly think that this is the wrong place to raise your comments. Highjacking a blog post about what appear to be well thought out and well organised workshops to dirty the whole industry because you've got a chip on your shoulder is pretty unfair.
I for one greatly admire the work that Dav and Tim produce and I have found every trip out with them interesting, informative and fun. I also find being in their company puts me in a great mindset to create good work of my own. As I have already said, I wish these had been available a year ago when I was first looking at Large Format - I'm sure my transition would have been a lot easier.
Highlight this Comment Richard Childs28/01/2010, 20:20
Sadly, the recreation industry is full of less than talented individuals touting courses in all types of activity.
When I left music college in the 1980's and got my first teaching job ( having aquired a L.R.A.M qualifying me to do so) I had very little experience. Fortunately I worked hard to make sure that I could deal with my pupils needs. For example I left as a highly trained orchestral musician but quickly found that most pupils wanted drumkit so, I found a good coach and put in literally 1000's of hours of practice and performance before marketing myself as a drum teacher.
As a full time ( unqualified) landscape photographer also running workshops I apply the same set of principals: to strive to be as good as I can be, to push myself as a photographer every time I go out with my camera, to share all my accumulated knowledge with clients. I hope that the reason people choose to join me on location is because this is apparent in my imagery.
Unfortunately there were and still are many more people (qualified or not) who took on teaching purely for the money with no real passion for the subject. Whether it be music, photography, art or any other recreational activity there will be people out there doing it for the money not the passion.
Here in Oban there are qualified photographers working in the commercial/wedding/portrait market who teach photography with seemingly no interest or talent for either photography or the teaching of it.
I would prefer to study with someone with a real passion for the subject which is why I am sure Tim and Dav will do well with this venture. They both know there is little money in running workshops unless they are done on an industrial scale and are clearly on a mission to spread the word about the joys of the cloth.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin28/01/2010, 20:42
Hi Richard,
You put it so eloquently! Yes we realise there is very little money to be made doing courses. Even if we get a full house we would only be earning about £200 each although we've spent considerably more than that advertising and buying second hand gear to rent out. If we come out of it with some money for film we'd be happy. At the end of the day it's more about introducing people to large format and trying to pass on some of the joy we both get out of it. We're both rather obsessed by landscape landscape photography and large format in particular and evangelising is a common result of being highly enthused about something.
And as we've discussed previously, even if people don't use large format all of the time, the thought and physical processes involved carry over well into small format and digital photography (and in the process seem to help better connect one with the land in some strange way).
Highlight this Comment Dimitri Vasiliou01/02/2010, 16:00
I have been reading all the above with great interest and I would like to add my 2 pennies. Chris' brother had a bad experience, fair enough and I might agree that there are some Del boy characters out there. Should we put everyone in the same basket though as someone else mentioned? I don't think so. How many times we see on the news about doctors who fail their practice? They were certainly qualified and regulated. It is the same story everywhere. I run photography courses myself and all I promise is that I will do my best to show you how best to use your equipment, how to read the qualities of light, all about the technical sides of photography. I am not surprised that some of my participants do not know how to even properly use their tripod, never mind their camera. After all, this is what they pay for, to teach them all the basics and make them think about their images before they even take them. Lets don't forget that there are thousands of people out there who bought a camera and desperately need help, as they realised that a new slr camera doesn't make them good photographers. I have yet (and I am being 100% honest) to find one of my participants who wasn't 100% happy with my courses and I must say that, I have had my fair share of difficult people. People are not stupid, if they do a course with someone and that someone doesn't deliver, they will not join him/her again but the best part is that, it is a small world we live in these days and the word gets out very quickly. Those who do not do their job properly will suffer. Lets don't put everyone in the same basket.
Highlight this Comment Robert Lilley16/04/2010, 15:18
Perhaps we should establish an ISO 9000 series accreditation protocol and require photographic instructors to have a Meister Brief as required by German guilds?
Qualifications are for those who want to collect box tops, merit badges and the like. To my mind proof is in the pictures themselves along with the instructor's empathy with the student and ability to teach.
I spent 25 years managing printing and graphics for a large corporation. I didn't have a college degree or other accredited paper qualifications. What I did have was a little 'moxie', a desire for knowledge for it's own sake and pride in my work.
As such, if I were in the UK, I would sign on with these guys in an instant.
Highlight this Comment Tim Parkin16/04/2010, 15:22
Hey Thanks Robert!! When you're in the UK (sometime) we'll give you a hefty discount :-)
Highlight this Comment Richard Barley26/05/2010, 13:55
All the best with the new course. I would love to come up at some stage to brush up on large format techniques. Fuji will probably regret the quickload going. I think allot will return to film and darkroom as a hobby. I know I am.
http://www.richardbarley.co.uk
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